Join host Chris Bowen in an engaging conversation with Jon Sansone, a seasoned sales professional with over three decades of experience. In this episode, Jon delves into the crucial aspects of continuous learning and maintaining motivation in the dynamic field of sales. Discover Jon’s journey of self-education and the invaluable resources that have shaped his sales techniques. Explore the nuances of different sales styles and strategies for effective collaboration within a diverse sales team. Gain insights into the importance of state management, active listening, and the art of asking impactful questions in the sales process. From building value to handling objections with finesse, Jon shares practical tips and wisdom for achieving success in sales. Whether you're a seasoned salesperson or aspiring to excel in the field, this podcast offers invaluable lessons from Jon’s wealth of experience.
Join host Chris Bowen in an engaging conversation with Jon Sansone, a seasoned sales professional with over three decades of experience. In this episode, Jon delves into the crucial aspects of continuous learning and maintaining motivation in the dynamic field of sales. Discover Jon’s journey of self-education and the invaluable resources that have shaped his sales techniques. Explore the nuances of different sales styles and strategies for effective collaboration within a diverse sales team. Gain insights into the importance of state management, active listening, and the art of asking impactful questions in the sales process. From building value to handling objections with finesse, Jon shares practical tips and wisdom for achieving success in sales. Whether you're a seasoned salesperson or aspiring to excel in the field, this podcast offers invaluable lessons from Jon’s wealth of experience.
What's up guys, Chris Bowen here with Level Up the Podcast where we talk about all things of how to level up in business and in life. I am joined today by John, the sales warrior, Sanson. John, why don't you introduce yourself to everybody, man? Absolutely, Chris. Yeah, my name's John, the sales warrior, San Sonny. I've been professionally selling for 34 years in a lot of different industries. Yes, sir, a long career. And many times I could have gotten burned out. Absolutely. I think, you know, we were kind of talking off camera a little bit, and I think that the fact that you've been in sales for 34 years means you've probably seen it all. You've probably heard it all. But one of the things that I was most impressed with is kind of your thirst for knowledge and for going after and still learning different sales techniques and what's learning, what's, what's working for others. So why don't you tell us a little bit about that. Sure, well, for my early 20s, you know, I hate to say this, but like I went to work for a Fortune 500 company and like 30 minutes into being taught how to sell, I realized that the Fortune 500 company wasn't gonna teach me to be the salesperson that I wanted to be. And so like back in my early 20s, which would have been in the late 80s, I hit Barnes and Noble and bought myself a book by Zig Ziglar called See You at the Top. And that was pretty much my immediate sales training. Yeah, that's I like Zig Ziglar's books. I like I've read some of the Tony Robbins stuff. I don't know if you've read Tony Jerry, but Tony Jerry's stuff I like a lot. He's he's local to Dallas now. But he's got some good stuff, Ryan Stumman stuff, you know. But I'm kind of the same way. I like to dig in and I really like to learn and see what's working for others. Because, you know, I was of the mindset I started off in my sales career kind of started off. in inside sales. So hitting the dialer, you know, and I realized quickly that is not the method of sales that works best for me. You know, I'm very much more a relationship driven salesperson than I am, you know, a phone caller. So, and I know we all have a little bit of different sales style, but so, just for the audience so that they know. So John here has about three guys who work under him on his sales team. And so John, so when you deal with a situation like that, where somebody's sales styles different from yours, how do you work with them in that situation? yeah, so I got a guy that's an appointment setter, a guy that's kind of a junior sales guy. And then I got a guy that works with some of my already established customers. And so I'm the coach. And so if need be, I come in quarterback as well as coach. But I've provided all my guys with scripts. And I'm a coach. And I've also provided all my guys with understanding who they are and what their worth is, so they can explain it to somebody else. And I think that's so important in sales. Like very quickly, you got to get it across who you are and why they need to listen to you. And I'll just mention it because this is kind of my motivational business, Chris. So people should think of me as a... as Steve Jobs, because I'm a capitalist, and John Lennon, because I'm really creative and liberal in areas of my life. But when I say liberal, like I'm open-minded thinking, I mean that in the sense that like, somebody can't just tell me something and I take it as being fact. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah. I, you know, I'm really kind of the same way, um, in that I like to take advice from others and that I like to listen to what, you know, what others would do when they're in the same situation. And I think that's the way that you really kind of learned. Sales the best, you know, that's, that's my opinion on it. You know, when you listen to others and you listen, how do others, others do things, eventually you pick up your own style, you know, when you're talking to people, but you got to hear somebody else do it a thousand times before you can go and do it. Exactly. Duplicate. Duplication is so important. And that's probably one of the best things anybody should ever hear is that you can duplicate success. And if somebody has something that is successful, it can be duplicated by somebody else. Yeah, absolutely. And so throughout your sales career, have you had a team like this typically, or is it typically just, you've got your own territory or how does that work for you in the past? my sales career, it's been for the most part me and maybe an appointment setter and many times just me. So like I'm a type A personality. So, and I'm super driven. And so, it worked, but too like at some point in my life, I realized that, hey man, work smart, not hard. And yeah. social media in my opinion, is that it allows you to reach a much broader audience without having to, you know, go cold call people to go knock on doors. It really allows you to reach that broader audience and bring people in. And guess what? When people start to follow you, it's because they wanna hear what you're talking about. You're not forcing it on people. Yeah, man, people need some inspiration too, because people are just so burnt out. Just the fact that I tell you I've been in sales for over 30 years, and you're like, wow, you've been in sales for over 30 years. Could I have gotten burned out? Many times I got burned out. But I found ways to get excited for that next year. Even this year. to reignite that flame, reignite that passion. And it's always going to be self-work. You know, I liked reading the self-help books for that reason. I like attending conferences because I always feel fired up after a good conference, in my opinion, it makes me want to go out and work, you know, hustle. I still do stuff to get fired up. I mean, I think it was two weeks ago. I was just kind of feeling blase. I was having, I'm having a great year, but I was just feeling kind of blase. Like I just didn't have a lot of pep in my step. Not, not like normal. And I just started streaming Tony Robbins over and over and over, just like Tony Robbins, Tony Robbins, Tony Robbins. And, uh, and because. Him and some of these other motivational people have been a part of my life for so long. It's almost like I get the placebo effect. You know, it's awesome. Like it's such a gift from God to be able to like grab inspiration from others. Yeah, absolutely. So like a couple of weeks ago, I attended the blue collar ballers event. You know, the second half of our, our cell cycle this, this last year was pretty slow, um, you know, by comparison to previous years. And so, you know, attending that really got me motivated to just go out and hit it and just keep working hard and keep grinding. And I think everybody needs that in their life every now and then. Chris? Remind me. Huh? I work full-time for a stone and tile distributor. So I do outside sales for that. And then I run a marketing company as well. So part-time. So. Okay. So you're in your stone and cobbler business. Is that right? Stone like, oh, stone and tile. So is that residential mainly or industrial mainly? I work mainly in residential. So my background's in the pool industry for those that don't know. And so I spent 15 years in the pool industry. I ran my own business for almost six years. So we were doing probably about five and a half million in annual revenue before we ended up closing and having to go through bankruptcy on that. And so, nah, it's part of life. Right. That's stuff like that happens. Um, you know, we had a ton of price increases with COVID and I was not the business owner that I should have been. I didn't adapt, you know, and you learn through those processes and you learn through going through that of what you did wrong and you have to, you know, learn to take responsibility for the things that you did wrong and correct it the next time. And so that's what we're working on right now. Welcome. correcting a lot of those things. So making sure that you know there's more SOPs, that you know everything's automated, everything's duplicatable, that way business relies less on me myself and more on the ability of others. Okay, yeah, yeah. Hey man, that's awesome. Years ago I ran a landscaping business when I was 13 years old. I ran a landscaping business. Kind of wild to be doing something like that at 13, but I was a business owner at 13 years of age, man. Hey, I love it. That's how I got my start in entrepreneurship as well, man. Mowing the yards in the local neighborhood. I had like nine or 10 yards that I mowed every single week. 20 bucks a pot, man. It was awesome. You know, at 13 to have that, uh, a little bit of cash and then, uh, 16. you brought up a great point because when we've been talking, you said, hey, I'm not a dialer. Honestly, I'm not a dialer either. I approach things like, I'm gonna sharpen my ax so sharp that when I swing once, I'm gonna cut the wood. And that's the way I look at like how I... and you know, state management for sales and when I'm in front of a customer and I'm gonna be more curiosity based and impactful based. So I'm not looking to have 20 meetings. I'm looking to have really good, a few meetings that are really good and impactful. Like I think about it as like dating. Like if you put in a lot of effort on that very first date, you're likely to get a second date. If you put in no effort and you're like not even there, like you're there, but you're not there like she knows or if you're, he knows or whatever. If you're not there in the moment and they know you're not there in the moment, they will not want to be around, it's unlikely that they'll want a second date. It's unlikely because if you don't make an impression, and I use that a lot when I'm teaching my people, you gotta make five impressions to make a first sell. Yep, absolutely. but they gotta be good impressions. Like bad impressions are just like, you know, you know, swing and a miss, a swing and a miss. It doesn't, like you get a guy that gets up there and duffs the golf ball five times into the woods, doesn't make him a good golfer. And sales is the same way. You gotta get your swing right. You gotta plane yourself to the ball. Your feet alignment and your grip have to be right. And if you don't know what you're doing, you need to watch the guy you're golfing with. If he's a good golfer, just duplicate what he's doing. That's exactly right, man. And I think about 90% of sales is just listening. People that can listen are some of the best salespeople in my opinion, because all it takes is that one little thing for them to say that you realize, hey, that's what they need, and then you can execute. So once you find out that one thing that you need, you're in, and then once you're in, then you can add on more things as well. man, you bring up a great point, listening and asking questions. And you're right, you gotta listen. Not talk at them, like most salespeople are about the pitch. But listen to them. And too, like come to it with attitude. Like if you don't have good state management, up your state management. And I don't know, people know what I'm talking about. completely, but if you look at a guy who's a good basketball player, when he's thrown up to that free throw line and he's got two easy shots that he can put on the board, he goes into state management. Dribble twice, dribble once, line it up. I played basketball. Dribble one more time. You've done this in your backyard. for years, the state management technique. Now you're in the zone. Now it's just you in the basket. You're in your backyard, even though there's all these people in stands watching you do it. You've knocked all that out and you're just focused on you, the ball, your hand alignment, boom, two points, easy, they're in. And that's where you gotta be. Laid back, but focused. And focused on them. so I approach sales very similar to this. I just want to have a conversation with people. I want to find out what their need is. Everybody's got a need. Maybe they're happy with the product they have somewhere else, but maybe they're not happy with the customer service. Maybe it's not the product that I'm selling. Maybe it's my customer service skills that I'm selling to this client. Maybe somebody's getting good customer service elsewhere. but the product sucks. So then I'm gonna sell the product. You know, but you can't know that without listening and asking questions and having a conversation with people. Exactly, and broaden the vision. Like a lot of salespeople are so focused on, I gotta get this one thing sold that they don't expand the vision. And so they leave money on the table. That's something we're working on right now as well. In my outside sales position is, you know, making sure that we're selling ancillary products as well. So when people buy, are buying tile, tile and stone, Hey, guess what? We're getting some of that setting materials business where, you know, we're getting some of the, the other side of it as well. You know, we're selling the sand, we're selling the mortar, we're selling the grout, all of that stuff as well, because it adds up, you know, I mean, Oh yeah! you get your main sale, but then you get, you know, maybe an extra 10, 15% on top with your ancillary products. Man, when I sold software, we always bundled services, even if they didn't ask for them. Then they'd be like, what's this? And it's like, well, this is where our engineer can come on site, set all this up for you. You don't even have to worry about it. We'll update the hardware to the to the latest software firmware, what have you. We'll get it all ready up and going. We'll sit with you. for three to four hours, make sure you understand everything you got in front of you. And it'll only be like two grand plus our travel costs. Boom. And we made like 90% profit on that. I believe it, man. I believe it. And you know what? It's a sale that's easy once you've already gotten your first sale. It's easy to add on that second layer to it as well. And it's something people want and they need. You know, nobody wants to set that up themselves. Who would? That's crazy. So Chris, here's something that's really powerful and it was taught to me at this Fortune 500 company that I worked at. Price, price, package, no, product, package, close. But the key is, is that you got to get the people to picture what it's going to be like to own your product after the fact. and you have to get it done as a warm fuzzy. So like one of the best things I can teach is, as you're talking about, they wanna know about your company or whatever, you bring up a happy customer. Well, we set up a family the other day, and it's a few weeks ago, and they wanted this and they wanted that. And we put that together, but the neatest thing, we went back a week after it was all put together and they just love it. I mean, they just love it. Yep. these particular colors, we went out of our way to find these colors. You could see like all this that I'm sharing could be done with any product. That's exactly right. Sales is basic. If you can sell one product, you can sell all products, in my opinion. Maybe not all, but you can sell most products. And people fear buyer's remorse. So if you can get them to picture that this individual, and then two, like this is kind of a cool thing, so most sales guys hate objections, right? And I've been in sales for 34 years and I don't even call them objections anymore. In fact, I honor them. Like most salespeople that hear me say this will be like, oh, that won't work. When somebody has an objection, I always honor it. Like, John, your price is too high. You know, I hear you. And I understand why you might be questioning our price because you're worried that... you know, what you're gonna be paying is gonna ultimately lead you to the value that you seek. So let's break it down a little bit and let's talk it through. Tell me again, the items that are most important to you. And I'm gonna write them down. And then you go back through and you say, okay, so I can provide you with that. And we're gonna provide you with that with this. And yes, we can meet that need as well. We can meet that name as well. So if I could provide you with all this value and meet all your needs, does my price sound fair? Yeah, of course it does. Yeah. It just don't like when somebody has to take, I know this from software, but when somebody has a question and a technical issue, don't ever take a fence at it. And, uh, and when somebody is like shopping you or being analytical, honor that. Like I do that all the time. It blows people away. They're like, well, I don't know. I really want to look around. I mean, I think I can get a lower prize. I'm not, I'm not positive. And, and, you know, I just, I just stop them right there in their tracks. And I'm just like, I'm just, Hey, Bob, I honor that man. If you're an analytical person, that makes me respect you even more because I'm an analytical person. To give you an idea, I had some sightings situations with my house. I went out to five different companies. And guess what, Bob? I didn't pick the lowest price. What I did was I picked the best value for myself and my family. And two, and this is kind of a cool thing to say, but I wasn't just concerned about who could fix the side of my house right now. I was concerned about getting relationship with somebody that could provide this service for me and my family. That if something happened to me, I'd feel comfortable my wife going to him. And that's literally why I picked the contractor that I went with. And it's hilarious, but man, that works extremely well. Yeah. when you start building that, you know, that value in it and, you know, make them picture the future and the, you know, you're still going to be around in the future and you're still going to provide value in the future. It's like, boom, got them. And I let them think about it too. Like a lot of sales guys hate that. Oh, I want to think about it. I like, hey, I want to help you think about it. Like... Do you need like all weekend or do you need next week, two weeks, what's gonna help you? Like, are there things I can provide you with so that I can give you more information so you have more information? And if you throw so much information, they wanna make a decision because nobody wants to think about it for the rest of their life. It's like the, it's the opposite of what people think you should do. It works really well the way I do it though because I don't... No, no, no. out that you talked about that do have that buyer's remorse and that's not what you want. I think that as long as you set a realistic timeline for a follow-up appointment, you're fine. I don't hardly ever buy on the first pitch, ever. Yeah, exactly. I'm gonna do my research. I'm gonna make sure what you said pans out. Yep. You know, this is kind of intriguing too. So, so we use something in, in software sales and you kind of use this in industrial chemical sales too. But, but you always want the customer or client to know that you're a busy person and you're doing a lot of business. You got it. You got it. You got to drive that. And then two, you when they are starting to put you off, you even put them off more. And then that puts you back in demand again. Like, they're like, you know what, John, what is it? It's, why don't you call me March 15th? And I work in the quarters, so like, if I call March 15th, that's gonna push it out a Q1 for me. Like the likelihood that it closes, you know? is, but particularly like if we're, if they're telling me to like push it out until, okay, March 15th, but let's say they tell me to push it out and it looks like it's going into Q2. If it's going into Q2, I'll push it out even further. And the reason I do that is because then I get a commitment from them. to get back with them in a particular time and that's a minor yes. Like a lot of salespeople just want yes, yes. In reality though, and Ryan Stumann says it in his catch sales methodology, it's a lot of minor decisions that lead to the big decision. And if you give them the impression that you could, you want their business, but you also don't need their business, yes. You want it, but you don't need it. You don't have to have it. Yeah, I call that power selling. You don't wanna be a weak salesperson. You wanna be a powerful salesperson. So if they push you off, I push them off even further and it works indirectly. And then they end up creating immediacy out of it. and they're like, John, call me March 15th. Hmm, you know what? I know in March I got a ton of meetings right now and all kinds of stuff is lining up and it sounds like you need some time to think about this anyway. Why don't I call you April 15th? No, I really need to talk to you March 15th. You know, okay, great. But I nailed them down. Yeah, and I know then they're just not pushing me off. yeah, absolutely. So as we wrap it up here today, man, John, what is one tip that you can give salespeople to be better? Just one tip. Your best tip. Yeah, you should build a big you. Because if you're a small you, you aren't gonna sell squat. You cannot out-earn your self-esteem, period. You can't be a multimillionaire and think with a $50,000 brain. It's not possible. I agree with that. It's no different than having the work ethic. You can't have a burger flipping work ethic and expect to be a millionaire. It just doesn't work. And it's about them, not you. Hey, can I mention what I do? Oh, okay, sorry. Okay, so it's real easy if you're getting enticed by this and you feel like I can jazz you long-term, but. You can get involved with my motivational work, which is just at my website, sale I have a three-day bootcamp. It's over 30 hours of instruction, inspiration, audio, video, and it's $29, which is crazy that I sell it for $29. But I do. And then I have a book on Amazon that is 9.99 and it's called Sales Warrior. My bootcamp is called Sales Warrior Module 1. And if you want to hook up with me to go out to my LinkedIn, John Jowin, Sales Warrior, one word. And we'll hook up and we'll get you some inspiration on a day-to-day basis. But man, Chris, awesome, man. Love it, man. Thank you so much for your time today. I really appreciate it. Cheers. Take care, man. All right, you too, dude. Bye bye.